2010 Legislative Session: Second Session, 39th Parliament

HOUSE BLUES
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This is a DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY of debate in one sitting of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia. This transcript is subject to corrections, and will be replaced by the final, official Hansard report. Use of this transcript, other than in the legislative precinct, is not protected by parliamentary privilege, and public attribution of any of the debate as transcribed here could entail legal liability.
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DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

(HANSARD)

Video Link: http://bcleg-ds1.insinc.com/ibc/mp/md/open/f/8/8/20100415wv150en?f=w&m=v...
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HOUSE BLUES

THURSDAY, APRIL 15, 2010

Afternoon Sitting

G. Gentner: I rise in opposition to the harmonized sales tax, otherwise known as Bill 9. It's interesting that the Liberal government is unwilling and afraid to actually title the bill for what it is: the harmonized sales tax. They're here to defend it. I don't know why they wouldn't put it out there. It's called the Consumption Tax Rebate and Transition Act. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

[1725]

I mean, what a way to start off naming a bill: "consumption." Can you imagine? Consumption — you know, the coughing up, tuberculosis, the spewing forth, the phlegm that's coming forward. The think tank over there really didn't have it together. Why couldn't they be honest with the people of British Columbia and call it the harmonized sales tax? But for some reason it was all about consumption. It's a pathogen. It's going to go on and on. It's going to hit everybody. When they're finished, it's not going to go away. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Interjection.

G. Gentner: It's a plague — good point. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I mean, I thought tuberculosis was eradicated. I thought it was gone, but not at all. This is the consumption tax, the consumption act. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

On this side, of course, we see the difference between a regressive tax and that of being progressive, and we're seeing the fundamental shift in the last ten years relative to the tax structure of this province: how the poor will pay more and the rich get off the hook. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Let's just talk about tonight. Let's start off in a real good mood here. Tonight the Vancouver Canucks are in the playoffs, and hopefully, they're going to bring home the Stanley Cup. I think everybody wants that. I think that's a wonderful start. But starting July 1 the HST is going to hit every Canuck hockey game for an eternity. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

The hockey is going to be taxed. Can you imagine? Our fundamental game will be taxed. To the member who just spoke, from Prince George: the Prince George Cougars are going to be taxed. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Let's talk about the tax. They go to a hockey game. They get a hot dog and enjoy the game, the fundamental part of rural British Columbia. You have members here from Kelowna — the Kelowna Rockets taxed. You go to the game in Kamloops, this bulwark of Liberal support that's now falling, shattering away — the Kamloops Blazers. Go to the game in Kamloops — HST. The hockey sales tax, HST. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

The member mentioned earlier about how it's going to hit the kids. Sure, it's going to hit the kids — ice time, arena time — but just to go out to a decent hockey game. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

The member for Kootenay East, where they have a great hockey tradition there, the Kootenay Ice — 7 percent HST hitting that hockey team, going to a hockey game. Members from Chilliwack, the Chilliwack Bruins. We've got two members here — HST. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

What about this new team, the Abbotsford Heat? There's another team. We've got several members here from Abbotsford. I think Howie Meeker…. He's still with us. We should talk to "Golly gee whiz" Howie and find out what Howie really thinks about all this. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

HST will not only rob working families and kids of hockey, but it will result in a rebellious subculture, I believe. I do hope the Canucks are going to do well tonight, but let's not forget that hockey tickets are going up in the province of British Columbia. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

There's other hockey here. There's the B.C. Hockey League. We've just had a great finish. The Vernon Vipers won their effort. But in small town British Columbia, HST is going to hit them, hit them hard. Maybe we'll see more teams moving out of B.C. and going back to Alberta, or perhaps even the United States. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

It's a very thin bottom line, a very thin profit margin on these types of teams. They live and die by percentages — 2 percent, 3 percent. I think it's a real shame that they didn't consult with the hockey world and even all sports groups. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

In North Delta it's certainly going to hit my community. It's going to hit my community very, very dear in the restaurant industry, for example. We have 77 restaurants in North Delta. I've had many who have come to my door. They're very much worried. We're looking at up to 43 percent vacancy rates, as I speak, along Scott Road, one of the largest commercial corridors in the province of B.C. They're competing, and it's going to break the back of many of those restaurant entrepreneurs, I have to say. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

[1730]

We can speak at great length on this one. Basically, I can. I know the Minister of Finance wants to talk about North Delta and the wonderful news in a brochure. I welcome that news. I think in many ways, he's unwilling to tell you the real details of the brochure. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

In the brochure it talks about the first progressive Internet radio station in all of Canada, hosted by yours truly. That's what that brochure is all about. I welcome the minister and PAB and everybody else to jump on board and listen to progressive talk radio. We've had some great people on our radio station, and talk about the HST, all the way from Vicki Huntington to Bill Tieleman. Even Gordon Wilson has been on our show. If the minister wants to join us.... If the member wants to come on our radio show and talk about the HST…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Deputy Speaker: Member for Delta North, you do know that you do not refer to members by their first name in this chamber. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

G. Gentner: Certainly. My apologies, hon. Speaker. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

If the Minister of Finance wants to come and sit on our radio station, have a debate on the HST, we're certainly hoping for that. It's the little radio station that could. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Now, relative to the intergovernmental relations, I want to talk about our dealings with down south and transborder and transboundary relationships with other provinces. Today the Canadian dollar traded at 99.75 U.S. cents. The Canadian dollar is poised for parity. It was over a dollar…. I think it was yesterday. It's fluctuating. It's been suggested that by sometime this summer — soon; July 1, when the full HST is implemented — our dollar will probably be close to $1.10. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Gas is going up. So with almost two-thirds of the British Columbia population living within a stone throw away from the 49th parallel, it's going to be very interesting to see what happens. Here we are before the summer tourist time with all the expectation that after the Olympics somehow the American tourists are going to come up here to what we refer to as the best place on earth. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Now with a wave of a wand or a stroke of a pen — poof! — any real incentive to cross the 49th parallel, the latitude, to shop or spend money at our wonderful restaurants, is all gone. Free trade is an incredibly thin border. But you know, you can buy the Nexus card. Forget about buying in Canada. Your savings from not purchasing goods in B.C. can be put towards a Nexus card — you know, that card that gets you through the border quicker than ever before. That's right. For $50 you can get your no-HST express lane at Peace Arch Canada-U.S. border crossing. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

That's what it is. The Nexus card for 50 bucks is a no-HST express card. Your "get out of HST jail" card is worth 50 bucks. Before July 1 you can apply for a Nexus on line, or you can mail in your application. The no-HST express lane at the truck crossing is open between 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. for all shoppers. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

For you late shoppers, you have saved all that money from not paying the HST and have purchased your gas south of the line. Peace Arch Nexus express lane is open until 12 midnight. People are going to go south. The no-HST express turnpike is open 17 hours a day, seven days a week. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Now, if I were a restaurateur anywhere close to the line, I'd be shaking in my boots on this side of the line. Meanwhile Denny's in Blaine or Bellingham must be a little ecstatic. In fact, they're probably already considering making a contribution to the B.C. Liberal Party. What a gift to all the restaurants south of the line. The dollar is going skyrocketing. The American dollar is being lowered, and we're hitting our consumers with an HST. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

D. Donaldson: Maybe they suggested it to them. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

G. Gentner: Maybe they did suggest it, as the good member for Stikine suggested. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

What's the intention here? Is this government trying to chase out Tim Hortons? Cross-border, cross-boundary, the effects are certainly there. You can tell that to a Fernie small business person, for example, who has to charge 12 percent for the selling of a bike or a restaurateur who now has to charge 12 percent on a meal, while only 73 kilometres away from the B.C. border is Pincher Creek, Alberta. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

[1735]

You can drive to your Wal-Mart, and you can buy your bike there. In fact, you can go to Lethbridge — 3700 Mayor Magrath Drive South, Lethbridge. You can buy a bike there — no GST, no PST, no HST. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Ontario went a different route. They decided not to apply the tax on restaurant meals under $4. They call it the Tim Hortons exemption. Once again, the B.C. Liberal government gives a break to those who have enough money to be able to afford a half-million-dollar home, but not to those who can scrape the money together for a coffee and doughnut. The Tim Hortons exemption. Don't you love it? Ontario did it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

We definitely do need this in B.C., but much more than that, we need a Tim Hortons HST exemption. We need a bike shop exemption. We need the HST exemption on cable TV. We need an HST exemption on all restaurant meals, on consulting services, on animal feed. We need the HST exemption on movies. The list goes on and on. In B.C. maybe we should just call it the Starbucks HST exemption. Let's bring it to the west coast. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Ontario is slightly ahead of B.C. by recognizing an HST exemption for under 4 bucks, but we can do better in B.C. by keeping the present PST system where it is, where we can control our destiny and our tax priorities. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

We talked about hockey, the importance of hockey and the hockey sales tax. Tim Hortons is a franchise that was actually created by a hockey player, Tim Horton. It opened in 1964 in Hamilton with three stores, and now it's become a huge success. Losing Tim Hortons would drive any former Solicitor General batty, I think. We certainly have enough of them these days. Our top cops without doughnuts because of the HST. I mean, that's unthinkable. Is there no decency, respect for our national entrepreneurial successes? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

We don't have Krispy Kreme. There are too many calories there, too much sugar. But for heaven's sake, we have Tim Hortons. And what are they going to do? They're going to push our doughnuts south of the line. Think about it. Tim Hortons, by the way, are opening south of the 49th. They see the market there now. Isn't that coincidental? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Let's not forget the quick-pay Tim Hortons card. If you're going to buy a quick Tim Hortons card, you should buy one before May 1 because the price is going up. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Can you imagine ordering a double-double without the HST, or how about a regular without the HST or Roll up the Rim to Win without the HST? I know it's beneath the B.C. Liberals to go to Timmy's. You know, this is what it means. A regular means one cream, one sugar. We're going to lose that culture. A double-double — two creams, two sugar. Triple-triple — three cream, three sugar. That's all gone. Our culture — we're losing it. Perhaps even Starbucks is going to go south. I'll have a grande, a quad, ristretto, non-fat, dry cappuccino, but please give it without the HST. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

It's no question why Tim Hortons is now setting up shop south of the line. Why on earth? W.A.C. Bennett called this country God's country, but why should a government, at this specific time, bring in the HST? It's the wrong tax at the wrong time. And for retailers on this side, how much more will they have to reduce their prices, their bottom line, their inventories to compete against this no-HST express line? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Let's look at the difference in book prices south of the line. The same book right now is 40 percent less in Washington State than in British Columbia — 40 percent lower. On July 1 add an additional 7 percent on the price in B.C. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

[1740]

Now, I know what that does to the members opposite. They're going to have to go south of the line to buy all their Sarah Palin books. You know, "Sarah Goes Grizzly Bear Hunting." You're going to have to go down south to buy that because it's cheaper. "Palin Stops Fish Farms in Alaska." Yes, she did. That's another bestseller. You have to go south of the line to buy that one. "The Right to Own a Gun and the Need for Election Expense Reform," by Sarah Palin. You're going to have to go south of the line to buy that one — far cheaper. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Let's go from books to haircuts. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Interjections.

G. Gentner: No? We're getting personal. Let's not get too personal, but I do admire the wonderfully coiffed hair of the Minister of Finance. There is a need once in a while to get those locks snipped. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I think of the savings over time regarding haircuts or other personal care facilities such as a spa. If you make it a monthly excursion south of the line, I'm sure you're going to find a new, willing and friendly Washington State barber or beautician who will gladly now snip your hair. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

But how smart is the HST? You're hitting barbers and cab drivers, two of the most influential people of our society — entrepreneurs who message like no other person, no other industry. They talk. The people they must talk to day to day. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

If I was a B.C. Liberal, I'd be worried about where I ride in a taxi and where it's going to take me. If I was a B.C. Liberal, I wouldn't admit that to the barber…. When those clippers and scissors are out working their job, I bet there is not one B.C. Liberal who will admit to the barber that they are a B.C. Liberal. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

My barber is pretty irate. He told me that the HST will hurt his business. It kind of brings to mind that old Beatles song, Taxman. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Let me tell you how it will be. There is an HST for you and none for me, because I'm the taxman. Yeah, I'm the taxman. Should 7 percent appear too small, be thankful I don't take it all, because I'm the taxman. Yeah, I'm the taxman. If you drive a bike, a bike, I'll tax the street. You try to eat and eat, I'll tax your seat. If you get too cold, cold, I'll tax the heat. If you take a walk, a walk, I'll pass the HST. Taxman, because I'm the taxman. My advice for those who die, taxman, declare the pennies on your eyes, taxman, because I'm the taxman. It was a major hit. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

The HST will affect haircuts. It will. On that side we're now going to see more Beatle cuts. That's right. They're not going to go to their barber. They're afraid to go to their barber. They're going to be using the old bowl put on the head to get it clipped. That's the culture they're creating. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

The counterculture is now underway. Retro Beatles. There they are, retro Beatles. Next they're going to tax us again. They'll discard the bowls to cut the hair. We're going to see the musical called HAIR coming back. They're going to grow their hair longer. That's where we're going. It's a hippie counterculture over there. I can see the Minister of Transportation wearing flowers in her hair, and the Minister of Tourism is probably going to be wearing beads next. That's where they're taking us. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

They tried climate change and the Premier's Conversation on Health. Now they're taking us to the age of Aquarius. Imagine that. "Harmony and understanding" — that's what they're all about now — "sympathy and trust abounding, no more falsehoods or derisions." Unbelievable. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Someone on this side had the guts to say that it's the honest sales tax. I have to say to you, brothers and sisters: "Peace. Peace be with you. Let the sunshine in." That's not where you're going to take us, I'm afraid. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Let's return to the border crossing. The Canadian dollar is beyond par, and there's 7 percent HST. As for health spas, the government members need not worry. One just has to look at the government credit cards to know that they use the taxpayers' credit cards for spas, and they really don't need to worry so much about the HST. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Interjection.
G. Gentner: Go ahead. I'm sure the minister across.... If you checked out his purchase cards on line, you'd see exactly where the money is going. Interesting. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

[1745]

The drugstores across in the United States are going to make a killing from those non-HST express B.C. shoppers. Vitamins, dietary items and all non-prescription products. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I'm pretty sure we're soon going to see the occasional hearse going across the line with a Nexus card. You can imagine. Funerals are going to be cheaper Stateside, and weddings as well. Only the B.C. Liberals could bring in a tax that would blend holy matrimony with death. Can you imagine? I wonder how many weddings will be conducted now in Birch Bay or Semiahmoo Resort across the bay — from restaurants in White Rock, who are going to have to now shut down their biz. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Our resorts will be hit hard. They're going to be hit very hard. The wedding planners? They're gone because of these wedding crashers. That's what we're going to be seeing. You just go south of the line. "Deluxe triple-A four-diamond accommodation and unparalleled service create the foundation for an unforgettable wedding, blended with a 1,100 acre waterside wildlife preserve and northwest cuisine" — all yours without the HST. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

You know, Semiahmoo, across the line from White Rock, will dazzle you with possibilities for everyone on your guest list. They offer you the amenities to entertain your guests and family. They'll pamper them at their full-service spa, treat them to a full round or two or three of golf games. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I mean, golf — no HST down there. So you're going to hit the old golf ball, and you're not going to do golf in Peace Arch. Why would you? You've got your Nexus card. You've saved money. Where are you going to do it? You're going to do it in Bellingham. Unbelievable. Where was the thinking on this one? "From the champagne toast beneath their beautiful tented pavilion to their elegant Loomis Trail Mansion, Semiahmoo Resort spa and golf is the place for a Pacific Northwest wedding with a magical touch." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I don't think they thought this one out very well. Not at all. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We can talk about the funerals in Blaine, Washington. A country pine casket in the States is $3,500. Check out what it is here with the HST. Beautiful fibrewood, laminated, light pine finish — it's all there. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Interjection.

G. Gentner: I'm sure the minister across the way does a lot of golf games. I'm sure there are actually some cars over there he's purchased as well. Nevertheless, I don't know. Used cars are now available south of the line without the HST. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Again, tourism is in a very bad way. The dollar is up, and we're increasing taxes. Right after increasing camping fees, the highest in the northwest, now is not the time to bring in the HST. We want people from south of the line to come up. We want them to spend their dollars. We want them to come to our RV parks. But we have the HST. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I'm not going to talk about basic residential telephone service, basic cable, but I will talk about this. After July 1, on the CBC next year…. You can't afford to go to a Canucks hockey game, so you're going to watch Hockey Night in Canada. But your cable is going up. Isn't that a coincidence. Boy, they're hitting us every way possible. Every possible way. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

The other question I have to ask is: if this is a new, competent way of doing it, why did it take them so long to do it in the first place? Why didn't they follow the example of Atlantic Canada? Think of it. In 2004 they could have implemented it. Why didn't they do it? Because they know it will cost an additional $113 million per annum. This government is a clearinghouse, an agency to get whatever it can in the short term and abandon the future. That's what this HST is all about. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Why the yearly payments and not the whole enchilada? Why not the whole $1.6 billion now? Why the increments? Why don't they demand the money now? That's great negotiations. Why? Because they want to set it up for the next election. That's why. Transition money at $775 million. Instalment of the payment on March 31, 2010. Then we're going to see another $374 million, and then we're going to see another one in 2011-2012 — $475 million. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

[1750]

If this is such a windfall, again, why didn't they claim it all at once? By not doing so, we are borrowing money to pay off our deficit. Why didn't they demand to claw the money now from Ottawa? Boy, they're incredible negotiators, great accountants. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

The unnecessary interest charges will cost B.C. $50 million in 2010-11 on the debt, $24.4 million in 2011-12. That's a total of $74.3 million over a two-year period. That's what I have to call blood money. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Oh, I suppose they think it's going to be efficient, but government has never really produced a pro-and-con assessment on this. I know they had this little ragbag of a report called the Mintz report, but has there been a thorough cost-benefit analysis? No. Because the government has destroyed the economy. It has misrepresented itself and the needs. Revenue at all costs is important. We're here to sell off our tax sovereignty because of the horrendous situation this government has put us in. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Interjection.

G. Gentner: I know there are anxious people who want to get out of here to watch a hockey game that still is HST-exempt. Next year we're going to be paying and paying to go and see a hockey game. By golly, gee whiz, the cable networks are going to hit you to stay at home and watch it again. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I wish the Canucks all the best. We know that next year the HST is going to hit hockey in every town imaginable. Even the Minister of Transportation's Prince George Cougars are going to be hit. It's going to be hit hard. Think about that one. The Kelowna Rockets. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Hon. S. Bond: And I will still be a season ticket holder. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

G. Gentner: Season ticket holders. Well, some people will have that ability, but for the family that wants to go out and buy a hotdog at a hockey game…. The hotdog's hit. The refreshments are hit. The tickets are hit. They'll be staying home wondering why the cable bills are more expensive to watch hockey. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I would like to reserve my right to speak again, because I have a few things to talk about — on-line shopping. I thereby adjourn debate…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Mr. Speaker: Member, you've only got a minute and 40 seconds, so you might as well finish. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

G. Gentner: I have a minute and 40 seconds? I wish I had another 30 minutes. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Well, on-line shopping is the future. It's here already. We have something called self-assessment. You're supposed to do a self-assessment if you buy something out of province. If you buy something out of Alberta, guess what. If you buy a wedding dress for $3,000 in Alberta and you bring it over here, or if you're a buyer or a broker or a wholesaler, you're supposed to bring forward a self-assessment on it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

The auditing is now going to be done by the federal government. The problem is that the province has never really done proper auditing on self-assessment. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

On line is the future. On line is now, and with the HST, how are you going to monitor that? How are you going to claw that one away? We're going to be seeing a greater, larger black market created in the future. People are going to get under the wire on this one, and I'd like to see how the government's going to find the money, the HST, on on-line shopping. It doesn't have a clue what it's doing. It doesn't have a clue. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

G. Gentner moved adjournment of debate.
Motion approved.