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2009 Legislative Session: First Session, 39th Parliament
HOUSE BLUES
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This is a DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY of debate in one sitting of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia. This transcript is subject to corrections, and will be replaced by the final, official Hansard report. Use of this transcript, other than in the legislative precinct, is not protected by parliamentary privilege, and public attribution of any of the debate as transcribed here could entail legal liability.
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DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY
(HANSARD)
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HOUSE BLUES
FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 6, 2009
Afternoon Sitting

(debate continued)

G. Gentner: I rise in support of this hoist motion. I think the last time I rose to do so in the late evening, we had a member, Corky Evans, who stood up and actually broke into song. In fact, I think it was three o'clock in the morning, and the lights were turned off somehow. We got through that episode quite well. But, unfortunately, the government didn't listen to us that day, and here we are once again. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I begin by thinking about earlier today and welcoming the Prince and his lovely wife here. It was a great day, and it's a great reminder, too, of how important our jobs are here and how important we fit in within the parliamentary system. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I begin talking about the need to hoist the motion, this need to talk about the need to bring collective bargaining back, the need to give collective bargaining a chance. I'd like to thank the member for Port Coquitlam, who gave us today the hoist motion. It's sort of like: "Give collective bargaining a chance." It's kind of like John Lennon giving peace a chance. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I can imagine that the member for Port Coquitlam probably had long, curly hair years ago, and he was, you know, into very positiveness. Here we are, and it's the same sort of thing. It's to give peace a chance; it's to give collective bargaining a chance. That's why I support what the member for Port Coquitlam brought forward here today. I certainly put forward and support this need for this hoist. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Interjections.

G. Gentner: Thank you, Hon. Member, or Chair. I think that it was probably much longer than the member would like to admit, but nevertheless. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

There are many issues in this province that come and go politically and that have a lasting impact on our social fabric. This is one issue — the erosion of collective bargaining, why we're here today on this motion — that we have to give time to, for reflection. We have to give time to be fair. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

In fact, Bill 21 is really a very hard-nosed bill. It's a bill that, I believe, is about to set the clock back on labour relations in this province. I think it's so serious a bill that we ask, as Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, and we implore to reconsider. I look across, and there is hope. The Minister of Labour is here with us this evening, and he is listening. He's giving us his ear, and so I plead to the minister and his government to seriously reconsider this, I believe, hasty Bill 21. That's why I support the member for Port Coquitlam's motion to hoist this thing. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

[0010]

It's a time to be reasonable, it's a time for fairness, and it's a time to be prudent. This is not a time to sledgehammer legislation through. This is a major dispute, and there's no agreement. Just on the title alone, what it's called, I think, gives the wrong impression. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

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sledgehammer legislation through. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

This is a major dispute, and you know, there's no agreement. So just on the title alone, what it's called, I think it gives the wrong impression. The B.C. government, I believe, is making a mockery of the process of collective bargaining. That is why the hoist motion is here. It is for this government to look at the decent side, I believe of collective bargaining — to refrain, take a deep breath and think about what they're doing. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Now, the government doesn't understand, I believe, the seriousness of these actions and where we're going to be going when we go into further collective bargaining coming up. You know, it's going to set us back. It's going to set us way back, and that is why I think we have to re-evaluate this position. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

You know, six months, I think, is sensible. It gives us the time to retract, a time to cool off, and it's a time for us to build a province when we come back here in the spring. When the motion was made today, I think it was done in the spirit of cooperation by the opposition, but I have to say that when the opposition House Leader made the hoist motion for six months, I thought: "Well, why six months?" [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I mean, why not a year? Why not three months, four or five? Why was it six? You know, there's got to be some reason here. Knowing the House Leader, there's got to be some reason. Perhaps he's got some numerology here that I certainly don't understand. Maybe he knows something about numbers. He is, after all…. Maybe he's a numerologist. But why six months? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

That's what this hoist motion is all about. It's six months. How the planets and stars line up, I don't know. Maybe it's all of the above. Maybe it has something to do with anniversaries. Then you know — boom! — it hit me. We're dealing with, I think, a very sick B.C. Liberal government patient, a patient devoid of many things. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Six months from today, November 6…. Well, 15 minutes ago it was still November 6. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Interjections.

G. Gentner: It still is. In this world, yes. The Minister of Labour corrects me, and so he should. In this type of world over here in the Legislature, we are still behind the times, so yes, today is tomorrow. And tomorrow, hopefully, will be today. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Nevertheless, when you think about six months from November 6 is May 6, that's a reasonable time. Hopefully, by then, May 6, we'll get a deal done. But of course, how can anybody forget what May 6 is? May 6 is Sigmund Freud's birthday… [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Interjection.

G. Gentner: …and the member's son's birthday. That's maybe just a coincidence. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Deputy Speaker: Member, please direct all remarks through the Chair. If I could ask members to refrain from making comment without being in their own seat. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

G. Gentner: Absolutely, hon. Chair. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Siggy Freud's birthday is May 6. Now, we shouldn't extend this for six months. This is to commemorate Siggy's 154th birthday, but I really have to be serious. This is a very serious matter. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

But it brings to mind that it's time, for six months, to put the government on the proverbial couch and do a little analysis. That's what this motion does. A chance for re-examination, a time to recall. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I mean, there's different methods of psychoanalytical aspects. I'm not necessarily a Freudian. I'm not neo-Freudian. There are Jungians, and there are existential psychoanalytical approaches. We can go down the gamut. I'm more, of course, in support of humanistic perspectives. But six months — that is what this is about. We could have extensive psychoanalytical views, analysis, and see what the problem is. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I think that's fair. We can put this government under hypnosis for six months. That would really solve the problem, I think. Six months, psychopolitics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

[0015]

Hoisting is a prescription so doctors can get back to work and find out [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

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That would really solve the problem, I think. Six months of psycho politics, and hoisting is a prescription so that doctors can get back to work and find out what's really ailing this government. I mean, six months. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Could you imagine if Freud were here today, in this place created in the late, late Victorian setting here? Could you imagine what Sigmund Freud could do with the group over there? You know, I'd just love to read the case study, when he would be finished, about what he would find — a case study of B.C. Liberal anxiety and why they have to foist so quickly and ram this bill through instead of having a moment of reflection. But I also hate to think of the weird fantasies that could come out. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

But we've got to give the doctor and the patient time. I think six months is reasonable. They might get to the root of the problem, lose their reality, I think. Delusional and a propensity to tell untruths — that's what we've had. A decade of deceit. Giving them six months on this hoist motion not only will give them the time to look at what they're doing relative to this bill but will give them time to reflect where they're going — where they're going in a larger perspective. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

From a psychoanalytical perspective, why are they so hard on the paramedics? I think it's because they save lives. Freud would say: "Well, this is the death instinct. It's about anxiety." They fear their own mortality, and hopefully, by 2013 they'll be gone. But they fear it so much. There's something eating away at their own inner core, and therefore, they must project a sense of immortality and wield pain upon those who are more meaningful to society than they themselves. They're here in spite of death. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

It's those paramedics that save lives, and the rest of us in society look at our paramedics on a higher level, on a pedestal. That's why we need the hoist motion. It's going to take six months of counselling, true counselling on all sides, to get this done. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

The B.C. Liberals, I believe, are weak, and they must compensate for that weakness by projecting their sort of a brute-like strength upon others. It's the same way any bully picks on the others. It's usually with the do-gooders, the people who are trying to do their best for society. It's that inner core, where there is something eating away in their inner core. It's the worm inside, and because of it, because of their own insecurity, they lash out at others. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Six months. I think six months is very reasonable, because the government needs six months of therapy, good therapy. We look at this aggression, this need for hostility. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I got a letter from Jennifer, who writes: [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

"I've been a paramedic for 14 years and served with pride and enthusiasm during this time. I worked hard and under stressful times to serve the citizens of British Columbia around the clock in all types of settings. This strike has left me feeling worthless and devalued.

"You know, that's what this government is trying to do, and that's why we need six months to rebuild that morale. There is constant discontent within the ranks and disputes with management. It troubles me that I cannot feel good going to work under such negative pressure from the B.C. Liberal government."

Pressure, Mr. Speaker, pressure, and we need the time to heal, to re-examine. We need those six months. That's why I support the hoist motion. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

She goes on:
"This, in turn, has affected my desire to care and has caused me for miss work due to stress and frustration. My family has suffered, and I battle my emotions to consider a career change. As a result of this, I have endured sick time above and beyond a reasonable amount, which ultimately costs the taxpayer."

[0020]

Let's hoist this thing, hon. Speaker. To the minister: let's hoist it, and let's go under intensive [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

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I've incurred sick time above and beyond a reasonable amount, which ultimately costs the taxpayer." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Let's hoist this thing, hon. Speaker. To the minister: let's hoist it, and let's go under intensive therapy. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

You know, Ziggy said this about aggression: "Ja, he is the problem. The tendency to aggression is an innate, independent, instinctual disposition in man.… It constitutes the most powerful obstacle to culture." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Now, he would have gone on, if he'd come back. He'd say: "In the case of B.C. Liberals, this is a very complex and difficult pathos that may not be reversible." Unfortunately, he is not here, but if he were to lay the patient out, I'm sure he would still insist that we have to go through thorough examination. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

May 6 is Ziggy's birthday, and of course a member here's child. It's an interesting coincidence. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I don't know if he'd think that six months would be enough time, since this is Victoria. Maybe it would be, because it could be possible. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I support this hoist motion. The actions of this government are based on something repressed. It's repressed inside. It's repression. And that is now suffering, and it is ugly. It's aggression. It's hostility. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

This is what a paramedic writes, relative to aggression and his own view. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

We trudge along, though, because deep down, as much as we cry and become despondent after particularly gruelling physical and emotional calls, we love this job, and you, Mr. Premier, know this. You have exploited our love and commitment to our job, and all I can say is "Shame on you."

All citizens of this beautiful province are deserving of respect. So why have you singled out the B.C. Ambulance Service paramedics and continue to treat us with such contempt and disrespect? I am at a loss. I will be leaving the BCAS after almost 20 years of full-time service, and I am leaving due solely to the disrespect shown to all BCAS paramedics by our employer.
Chad Swanson

Exploited, disrespected and being singled out. That is how a victim feels from a bully. It's that aggression that is pent up inside. It's pent up so severely that it has to find a whipping post. Unfortunately, it is our paramedics who are now feeling the stick. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Why such contempt and disrespect to our paramedics? Why? It's because of guilt, because of their own impotence. They have to be the tormentor. Perhaps after six months they will step back and re-examine what their actions are and why they are doing this. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

It doesn't make sense. It really doesn't. I don't see the decency in this. What's the big rush? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

You talk about anxiety. They said one thing during the election. They said: "No HST. Hardly will there be a deficit." We're now looking at a deficit that is almost structural. They knew. We're hearing from the letters that people are starting to hate this government. They're starting to hate them. All of this anxiety is now lashing out at others. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

They're running hard and long since the election — angry, and they're taking it out on workers. That's why I support the hoist motion. It goes beyond just simply the paramedics, which we have to address. It's the general, ingrained passion. It's not a very healthy passion. Striking out, lashing out — it's hurtful. That's why I agree in six months. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

[0025]

It's deep-ridden. It's eating their insides. I would say it has been the guilt that has built up for almost a decade. We're calling it "decade of deceit." Others are questioning their inner selves [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
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you know, it's been a guilt that's been built up for almost a decade, and we're calling it a decade of deceit. Others are questioning their inner selves. I think many members on that side are starting to question themselves. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Of course, I'm not going to get into the ego versus the id, and all that stuff. That was all 19th century stuff. But all this guilt is projected on victims. It's time to heal and it's time to deal with some anger management. I mean, that's reasonable. That's human nature with all of us, I suppose. Sometimes we get caught in our work, and we're so pent up, we're driving an agenda, that we don't step back. That's why I support the hoist motion. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

On the same line, I have another letter that I want to read out from another paramedic. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

"I've been doing this job, serving the public of British Columbia, for the last 38 years. When I started we didn't have any protective gear. Over the years I've been exposed to many contagious diseases. My dear wife sat alone many times over the years eating a meal she had prepared, while I responded to an emergency call. There were many disappointments for my wife and three children, as I couldn't say no to helping someone in trouble.

"I'm not blaming anyone. I chose this profession. Please don't use the flu scare to pass this bill. My fellow paramedics and I have worked through the strike, caring for people in trouble, and we will not stand by and let anyone die. We've worked through the flu many times over the years. The flu doesn't scare us. What does is abuse of power in a free country.
"Remembrance Day is up, and let us not forget what my two uncles died for — freedom and to stop a tyrant."

Passion. There's passion in there. That's the thing, hon. Speaker, that I'm reading in all these letters. There's a sense of passion here. It goes beyond just a political agenda. People are genuinely upset. There whole lives are being stepped on. So support the hoist motion. It's not that hard to do. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I'll go on:
"This bullying…." And the word "bullying" is coming up all over the place in the correspondence. I'm sure the members opposite are receiving the same kind of letters. I'm sure when they go back into their constituency…. Maybe it's a godsend that they're here right now, I don't know, to get away from the pressures. Maybe that's how they're thinking. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I go on:
"This bullying of one of the weaker unions, by ramming this bill through before the vote is counted, is an arrogant act. All the unions in B.C. and Canada should rally behind us, as they could be the next one. How about a little respect?
"Signed Bob Copp, paramedic."

Now, Bob Copp also holds an exemplary service medal of honour. I mean, how can you treat our front line that way? It's despicable — absolutely despicable. But I plead and I ask, again, for a little rationality here, to be a little reasonable and support this hoist motion. A little respect: that's what the paramedics are asking. We need a little time for the government to reconsider. What's wrong with six months? It gives us all November to negotiate, a month of sober reflection. November — well, we're going to have a little rain. I think of Shakespeare: "The quality of mercy is not strained. It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven upon the place beneath. It is twice blessed. It blesseth him that gives and him that takes" — a month of mercy and compassion, November. What's wrong with that? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Next week, in rain, we'll stand by the cenotaph remembering and reflecting, November. That is what the hoist motion is about — giving us November, a time to reflect and work towards peace. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

[0030]

I have another letter to read here. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

"My name is Vanessa Howard. I am a primary care paramedic. I love helping people and enjoy working as a paramedic. In order to do so in British Columbia, however, I work for PCAS. When I applied I was told that I could only apply to work as a part-time paramedic and would only be able to get hired on to a remote station. My husband I decided to make the sacrifice financially to enable me to work at something I loved."
These people love their job. They love what they're doing. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

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get hired onto remote station. My husband and I decided to make the sacrifice financially to enable us to work at something I loved."

These people love their job. They love what they're doing. It's a workplace that could be filled with real worth, and it's being ripped apart. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

She goes on: "Helping people…." I won't go further. There's so many letters here, hon. Speaker. But helping people…. Give us November. At least give us November so the government and the union can come and work together. That is why I support this motion. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I support the motion because it also gives us December, a joyous time. Think about it — three good weeks to resolve this dispute in December. While many of us are entering Christmas parties and cheer, the paramedics will be out there in the snow. Many of them won't even see Christmas eve or Christmas day. They're there for you and me. Give them December. Let's get this thing done. We can work together. Hoist this motion. Join us. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

That's why I support this motion — out of respect for our paramedics. They should get a break at a time when everyone else gets one at Christmas. They're working long weary nights, giving up their family at a very special time. You know, we get December to hopefully go through the spirit of goodwill. We have a chance for a resolution. That's why I support…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

January is another month. Janus, according to the Romans, is the god representing opening the door. Well, here's an opportunity. We can do something in January. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Samantha Wilbur writes: [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

"Quesnel is where I had my first critical incident stress. I was almost blown up by someone who made a makeshift bomb to kill himself. Although I was unhurt, I was just messed up. Taking time off work as a part-time employee means you get no pay until WCB approves your injury. After just a week and a half of being off work with no pay, sleepless nights and no appetite, I lost ten pounds and forced myself to get back to work so I could pay my bills."

To all the Samantha Wilburs out there…. Imagine a homemade bomb. That's what these people have to deal with. We owe Samantha her January. That's why I support giving six months to build the goodwill and to say thank you. February — well, that's kind of a tease during the early spring, isn't it? It's also the games. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I have another letter. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

"We're not against the Olympics. We don't have any issue with the Olympics. We think the employers are the ones who haven't been negotiating, have been stalling, have brought this fight to the Olympic doorstep, so to speak. There's no plan that we've been made aware of for the paramedics during the Olympic games. We don't know how many ambulances we have to provide. We're going to, coming from…. How many paramedics will be working or where they're going to stay and eat — we don't know."

That's from Steve Brenner, paramedic. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I want to wrap this up with an appeal again. I don't think it's very unreasonable at all, what we've asked here today. I don't think it's unreasonable at all. I think it's very reasonable. I think it's principled, and I think it's a decent thing to do. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I started quoting Sigmund Freud. I was having a little fun with it, but this is a very serious issue. Like I said, I'm not a Freudian. I'm a humanist. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

In the neo-Freudian genre, another famous psychologist once said: "The great question that has never been answered, which I have not yet been able to answer despite my 30 years of research into the human condition, is: if the patient is unwilling to seek analysis or any type of counselling in order to deal with his or her aggression to others, if he or she is unwilling to take sufficient time to consider what is behind their motives, the patient is completely beyond hope and will continue to hurt others." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Six months, Mr. Speaker, is not that much to ask for. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]